S2: Episode 15: Ken Kirkpatrick, Cyber Crime Constable, Hamilton Investigative & Police Services Division

“Active to not active and being in a wheelchair. It shatters your world, let’s be real.” 
It is challenging for us to fathom Ken’s story. His history includes success in martial arts, becoming a Police Officer on patrol in Hamilton, and then joining the Cyber Crimes Division. Ken has a wonderful partner in his wife, Krutika Patil, and they share their joy in their little girl. All that is a story in itself. And with all that, he also has had to use his considerable skills to prevail through a traumatic time. Ken was impacted in every way by a spinal cord injury. This is the story of his journey and the amazing man he is. It truly is a story of resilience and of a person of determination, grit, and grace. 

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Thank you Jann Danyluk, Career Resilience.

Transcript

 | 00:06 | Welcome to season two of Career Resilience, where we talk with people about their career path and their career journey and maybe we can all learn from each other. My name is Jann Danyluk and I'm a human resources consultant in London, Ontario, Canada. I work with Ford Keast LLP, providing human resources advice and counsel to my business clients. I also support people through individual one on one coaching and helping with career development.

 | 00:32 | I hope you will enjoy our series where we talk with ordinary, extraordinary people. We get to hear about interesting journeys. We get to talk with people about failures, successes, advice and counsel to us as we develop our own careers. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with these people, and I hope you will enjoy listening to it. And now for some logistics, please subscribe on YouTube. Or if you're a listener, please follow me wherever you get your podcast.

 | 01:01 | And if you have a chance, I hope you'll visit my website careerresilience.com welcome. My guest today is Ken Kirkpatrick. Ken, welcome to Career Resilience. I thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure. It really is. And we have so much to talk about today.
 | 01:32 | We're going to chat about your career in the police as a police officer and your career progression. And that's a lot of what we're about here on Career Resilience. And we're also going to chat about how things went sideways for you in terms of health. So that's sort of our combination of discussion today. So I always like to start with where people are physically located. So I see that you're located in a room, but in the room in what city?
 | 02:02 | I'm in Hamilton, Ontario. Yes. Okay. And that's the police force that you work within. Yeah. So I'm a Hamilton Police Service officer. Yes. Okay. So let's start with talking a little bit. Let's just get right into your career. So you are a police officer. And I wanted to know, did you always know that's where you wanted to go with your career? No. You know what?
 | 02:31 | I didn't really know what I wanted to do out of high school. I knew that I wanted to be in computers. So I ended up going to College for computer programming. And I loved it. I just loved being able to tell the program to do something. And it did it for me and it made me happy. Then I got some job experience in computer programming, and I found myself in a cubicle, and I wasn't talking to people.
 | 03:03 | I was just kind of eyes in the screen. And mentally I was exhausted. But physically, I had a lot of energy. And just like that contradiction that clashed, it was very difficult to get out and go for a run and be physically active the way I wanted to be. It didn't lead to the lifestyle that I was looking for. I needed something much more social. And I guess eventually my career as a police officer kind of morphed into computers anyway.
 | 03:36 | But that's what I needed. I needed that. So if I needed to talk to people, that was the kind of big shock for you, or you just thought, oh, I'm young enough, it doesn't matter. I can just sort of pop over and do something different. Yeah. Well, it was through a co op that I found out that this was not which was wonderful. It was actually in London at Sancho College, where I was doing a computer programmer, and it was great.
 | 04:06 | It was a great co op. I got to do programming, like, very good stuff, but it was definitely an eye opener. And I had a year to pivot into my next choice, which was University. My parents were very like, you need to make sure that you have education to back you up so that you can take care of yourself, and especially the way the market was going at that time. And now you need to be competitive. Right.
 | 04:33 | So I ended up going to King's University College at Western and sociology and Criminology, and I knew that maybe I'd go in that route, but the Criminology, those courses just they spoke to me also, and I was just like, genius. I thought it was so great. It was so interesting to study that topic.
 | 05:00 | And then the real world application of sociology and criminology for me became pleasing. Okay. And at the same time, did you do martial arts and stuff like that? You were a very physically active sort of person. Right. Growing up and so on. From a young age, I was into martial arts, and that's what builds. I think whenever I look back at my youth and I feel old saying, looking back at my youth and a lot of it was going to karate class.
 | 05:36 | And then from a young age, really, I was teaching class, too. That kind of like reiterates that social part that I need standing up at the front of the class and leading a class. Right. And it was great. I think the leadership part of where I was going in my life started really young with my instructors allowing me to teach. Yeah.
 | 06:06 | So did you get I don't know. Can you just tell by looking at me? I'm not into martial arts, but did you get a green belt and a black belt and the belts you're supposed to get? Yeah, I got all the belts. Whenever I was younger, I was too young to go straight to a black belt. So there's like a junior black belt which assists you in kind of bridging that time of like, you need to be a little bit older to get your black belt.
 | 06:36 | And then I eventually got my black belt and continued teaching, competing across Canada and the States. And it was really awesome. It was a great pastime, and it instilled so many good things, especially I'm thinking about my daughter, too, that I would want my daughter to go into martial arts because of the not even the physical stuff.
 | 07:02 | It was the mental stuff that just kind of hardening the repetitive nature of every class, starting off with, like a mantra of keeping your thoughts positive, your words positive and your actions positive, because that all leads to your values and then your values become your destiny and all these things. Right. It instilled such great values that if I could fear my daughter in any way right now, I love to have her in martial arts.
 | 07:31 | So you would chalk up the person you are to a great extent to going through all those programs to going through the martial arts? Absolutely. Yeah. There's so many variables that can contribute to the makeup of someone. But those hard values, working hard, having an empty gas tank, but still going as hard as you can is so very important.
 | 08:00 | And I think those experiences came out of martial arts also. Right? Yeah. So, Ken, here we are at University, you're really liking these criminology courses. Is that when you said AHA, I was looking for an AHA moment where it was like policing or bust. Right. But I think policing was the big. Like, this is where it could happen.
 | 08:30 | Right. And I really thought that especially because with the martial arts background, physically, I knew that I would be okay. But martial arts kind of teaches you the opposite that you don't need to be physical. Right. Like, it gives you the confidence to be present, but it allows you to use communication to the fullest. Right.
 | 08:55 | And I think that really fit with my idea of policing, which really turned out to be like that was an AHA moment where communication was very important in policing. It kind of evolved into policing. So being the thought now policing is very difficult to get into. It took me actually three years, actually, just short of three years to get hired.
 | 09:24 | And whenever I got that call and say, you're going to the Ontario Police College next week that was a big moment for me. That was a huge moment. Yeah, I can imagine. So you became a police officer in Hamilton. So my question for you is, were you on the beat? Did you start out on the beat? And then I think to myself, is that the phrase that you would use, or is that just me watching TV?
 | 09:57 | You know what? Yeah, totally. The phrase that I would use. I got hired and they put me on the street, and my division was the Central division. And within that division, there are little cutouts of beats. And so that's where you've got like a regular officer kind of hanging out, I guess, or patrolling in one certain area. So that's where the beat comes from. So it's complingo for peace. Yeah.
 | 10:25 | So you're definitely hitting it. Okay. So I'm watching the right TV shows, which leads me to ask, is it like what I see on TV? I don't actually watch the police reality shows, but I mean, more of the fictional shows in 30 minutes or the hour of the TV show for a crime to happen. And everything kind of get wrapped up, including victim interviews and things like that. Aside, some of the darker Craigier ones, the more the realistic ones are.
 | 10:59 | They focus a lot on the victim, and that's very realistic in times. But there's a lot of stuff that just kind of gets pushed under the carpet quickly. But, yeah, I still watch the policing shows because it's fun to watch, and then I can critique and have discussions. So was it what you expected? No. I don't think anything could prepare you for being a police officer.
 | 11:31 | I don't think you can have that expectation of the experiences that you're going to come into contact with, really speaking with victims and empathizing with the victim or even just speaking with the community at their worst time, because often, like, we're not dealing with people on their greatest days. It's always the worst moments of people's lives where police often are called in and have to interact with them.
 | 12:03 | And you have to remember that because people are not going to be at their best. Right. And that's where the communication comes in. Like, you must be a good communicator to operate in this policing career. Right. Especially in today's age. Right now, there is nothing I had no idea what I was getting into looking back, but now I'm looking back at my patrol career, and I'm just like, I look back at it and I smile.
 | 12:36 | I'm like, that was great. And I truly think that I made an impact. There's a lot of people that were affected in a positive way, right? Yeah. So having all those experiences coming at you and even not being what you expected, what did you do to sort of cope with that and stay strong? Well, so that is something that I was prepared for.
 | 13:05 | And you know what, just too maybe just kind of open up, being prepared, it's knowing that there are going to be situations that police officers get into that are going to be intense. Right. There's going to be death, there's going to be assaults, there's going to be some good times, but there's going to be things that affect you. And I knew that going in. I knew that there was going to be a lot of challenges, especially with mental health and really taking care of yourself.
 | 13:35 | Right. And I think that would be the most important thing that anyone coming into policing would have to have a plan for their mental health, like a strategy building your support network. Right. My mom, she was a community nurse, and so she kind of did the same thing as me patrolled around Hamilton and did her job. So she had that idea that she had been the places that I was going to be going.
 | 14:06 | Right. And so I was able to kind of, like, talk with her. Like, hey, I went here and I saw this, and this was terrible. And she's like, yeah. And having someone to kind of talk and they know about it, that's huge. Yeah. Really big in having, like, a strategy to deal with these landmines that you kind of step on. But the strategy is to talk about it as much as you can.
 | 14:35 | And my partner, she is phenomenal. Wow. Like, you know, whenever I have those difficult situations, being able to talk with her and have her listen, not necessarily comment or maybe explain away, it's that ear that you need. I lucked out. That's nice. I have a feeling she locked out, too. Okay. So what happened then in your career progression?
 | 15:06 | You moved beyond the role of being a patrolling police officer. Yeah. So there was this opportunity that came up where a new position was created, and it was the cybercrime unit. And that was a big AHA moment for me. I'm a police officer, and I've got this computer background. Right.
 | 15:34 | And I had already become and kind of established myself as a bit of like, if you have any technical issues, Kirkpatrick is the one you can go to, and he can kind of help you out. And that's from just like, very basic troubleshooting. Right. Or even video collection at a scenario. Like, I became very good at collecting video. Right. So this position came out, and I was still young on the service.
 | 16:02 | I had six years on, and I knew that singularity is a very big thing, and I respected that. And I was just like, I'm going to put my resume in because I want you to know that I exist. It's been six years, and I just want to make sure that, you know, hey, I have a computer and with no real expectations of getting it, but they got it. And then I got the phone call and saying, hey, Congratulations, you're going to be the first cybercrime Detective and Detective console in Hamilton.
 | 16:34 | And that was another great moment. Right. I still feel kind of like the sugars that kind of go up and build your face just it was great. Right. So I was really able to put all of my education. Right. So computer programming background went hand in hand with my sociology and criminology. And I was just like, okay, that's a win. Who can often say that their education is really being used in their current career, right?
 | 17:04 | Yeah. That's how that happened. So after six years, I transferred into the Investigative Services division, and I started assisting the Sergeant who actually created the unit. He had the idea, put the proposal forward, and that's how the position was created. And now we're here today able to really support Hamilton with computerrelated crimes.
 | 17:35 | Yeah. I just want to go back for a second. That a lot of times in a profession you get your education and your training, and it's kind of one and done. But it seems to me in your profession, it is constant upgrading of skills provided, which is pretty impressive. Why do you think that's so important to have so much ongoing education within the police force? Well, I mean, its personal development.
 | 18:06 | Right. First, it's a commitment to life on our end. Right. It's very important, too, if I'm the person who you're coming to with a computer related crime or let's just say any crime. Right. You want to speak with someone who's informed, who's up to date on the latest. And for me, in my particular situation, latest technology, familiar with applications being used, how things are done so that your victim doesn't have to explain things to you in the form of like, this is how this technology works.
 | 18:43 | I'm already on the same page as them, and I can kind of start absorbing more of how they were victimized. So I think in that sense, that's how education really comes out, because it's that interaction between the victim and the police service, which happens to be me in those situations that really matters. Right. Like an informed person who can kind of really understand where you're coming from. I think that's an invaluable asset.
 | 19:13 | I think that is huge to have someone and who is passionate about that. Right. And it worked out for me so well. Are you ever taken aback by sort of the lack of respect towards the profession that is there, Kent? Yeah, it is. Especially now. I think it's an issue.
 | 19:44 | And of course, I take it upon myself. It's my job with every interaction to prove that that is not how it should be. Right. I treat people who I speak with respect. How I Act is how I view the police service, and that is in a respectful manner.
 | 20:13 | I'm happy whenever I talk to people. I truly believe that people, when they kind of report things to me that they can hear, that I understand and I feel the pain that they're feeling in that respect. And I think that really allows that victim to start their process of recovery, whether it be mental and then also criminal part. Right. The investigation ensues. But, yeah, there is a lot of anger towards police right now, and I do my part.
 | 20:47 | I treat people as well as they can be, and I just take it from there. Right. Yeah. It's sort of like one of the things that I really like is all we can do is handle what's at our arm’s length. Yes. And if everybody does that appropriately, then that's all we can really ask. Right. So that's the key part is if everyone does their part. Right. Yeah.
 | 21:16 | So talk to me about cybercrime. I think I know what it is, but maybe you tell me what it is from your point of view? Well, cybercrime is like I guess there's kind of like two problems to cybercrime. So there's crime that is committed with technology. Right. So that's those people like using their phones to call and kind of defraud you. Right. Or using applications to defraud you.
 | 21:46 | So that's kind of like all of the kind of frauds, all of the old school crimes that are just being used with technology. Then there's another problem, which is like the very interesting stuff for me, which is where technology is the target and that's people hacking, they're getting into networks and they're doing mischief to data. So they're kind of changing data, they're taking data or they're deleting data.
 | 22:18 | So there's two kind of approaches to cybercrime, and currently there's one person in this unit and that's me. But all these come in and we get to investigate very interesting uses of technology in crime. Right. So when companies or organizations are held for ransom because of a hacker, is that something that you would get involved with?
 | 22:46 | Yes. And now we would get involved in so much as we would take the report and if it's reported quickly, which is very important for ransomware investigations, then there's something that we can do. We can start getting the computer logs, like the little breadcrumbs of evidence that we can start collecting and hopefully form an investigation. Often, though, these crimes are not reported right away.
 | 23:14 | Could be two weeks, a month, maybe like six months or something like that. And by then, all the evidence has been trampled over or it's been deleted and reformatted and they're back up and running and they're just reporting now. So it's very difficult to get into an investigation once all of that has happened. So it becomes almost like a reporting feature for the older reported cases.
 | 23:41 | But I think the community, especially like in Hamilton, they're starting to get into the fact that cybercrimes can be reported and they're are avenues in which police can assist. Do you think so, Ken, that there's a level of embarrassment on the part of the victim? Absolutely. A lot of these are kind of romance scams where people are they build that rapport with the threat actor, and then they start giving money to this person for bills, medical bills.
 | 24:18 | They've never met them before. But what happens and bills get built up. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars that one person can be defrauded and that's their life savings. They might be re mortgaging their house to support someone else who just disappears after they've received the money. And the embarrassment is there. I can understand that. Right. Yeah.
 | 24:46 | But having that person on the other end of the phone whenever they're reporting it obviously taking this seriously and giving them some hope that we're going to look into this and we're going to try and see if we could get your money back or maybe we could hold someone accountable for their actions that can kind of help with the embarrassment and help with that process again, of like moving forward and starting to heal from the wrong that's been done to them. Right? Yeah, I can do the embarrassment.
 | 25:17 | So, Ken, did you watch the Tinder Swindler? I haven't yet. I can't wait to see it. It's actually been screenshotted in a few of my presentations that I've attended. But what do you think? Should I watch it? You should watch it. It's very discouraging because people are so vulnerable.
 | 25:46 | And I think that people that are confident people have such a skill set. I don't know where they get training. Yeah. How do they get trained to be so good at talking people out of their money? It's just astounding and very sad. Yeah. To use that ability to communicate for bad.
 | 26:15 | Could you imagine and I've heard this before, but could you imagine what they could achieve if they did it for good? Right. I mean, they could do so much more. But no, they're behind a computer and they're defrauding people, and they're making promises to people who are lonely and vulnerable. Right. It's not just like younger age groups, either. Our elderly population are being targeted by this, too.
 | 26:45 | And that breaks my heart every time I hear of a grandma or grandpa who has been defrauded or extorted. It's so sad. And often in those cases, that's the money that they're living off of now because they're finished their career and they're in retirement now. And all that money that they spent so many years building up is gone that it hurts me.
 | 27:12 | So in December of last year, you won an award as cyber investigations contributor of the year from the International Association of Financial Crimes Investigators. Wow. So Congratulations. You must that's just incredible and amazing. So why did you win that award? Okay, so I won that award just for an investigation that I was part of as the lead investigator on that.
 | 27:43 | And it's still before the courts currently. But there are some news articles about it where a youth had stolen $48 million worth of cryptocurrency from a victim. And it was a big case. It was a very big case. But for that investigation, but also for contributing to the education of cybercrime.
 | 28:12 | So doing presentations to service, kind of like informing the front line of cybercrime is here. We can do these things. These are avenues that are available to you if you receive word about this, but then also reaching out to there's something with the YMCA, the city of Hamilton and Hamilton police, where it was a youth engagement series. And we were able to reach out and kind of inform them about how to use social media, not over sharing, if you have to share it.
 | 28:46 | All right. A lot of strategies on how to protect yourself that has a youth in today's day and age growing up, if you're on social media often feels like you're not in the game at all. Right. So just using social media in a responsible manner. So reaching out and doing things like that. Do you talk to youth about sharing nude photos and so on? Yeah. And that is something that's happening.
 | 29:15 | And it's terrible because these photos are being shared between two people, and maybe there's a relationship there, and this is kind of just this is how they are operating within their relationships. And it's a common thing. And then that relationship breaks down and one side is hurt and that side in order to kind of like crashes out and start sharing those images. Right.
 | 29:44 | There's charges under the criminal code for that now. Right. And if we could just get it through to you that you don't need to be sharing these images. Right. This is a new phenomenon, especially for parents today, because they never had to deal with that type of interaction between their son and daughter, having to kind of be complicit in this behavior. But I think the message is out there.
 | 30:15 | I think people understand that they shouldn't do it, but it comes down to being pressured into doing these things. Right. And sometimes it turns out that those images don't get shared. But when it does, that's terrible. And also sometimes extortion, too. Right. People do it online with people they've never met, and then these images are shared, and then it's a threat to share it with everyone on their Facebook list, unless you give me money or what have you.
 | 30:46 | Yeah. It's a very sad phenomenon to me. And I think, well, that's because I guess I'm older. And as you said, in my youth, there was no such thing as that kind of you would never have sort of taken a picture gone and had the picture developed and then sent it to someone who were in a relationship with that would just not occur to us.
 | 31:12 | But I guess because of the speed and ability, too, of photography that you don't maybe do the proper thinking or as you said, I guess there's peer pressure and so on. I mean, there's always been peer pressure since time in memoriam. I feel for parents that have to have that kind of discussion to try and relate to why it might be important for a youth to share or an individual to share those kind of photos.
 | 31:48 | Parenting, there's no training to begin with. But how do you get trained for those kinds of conversations that are going to work? Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. Right. Yeah. But perhaps the answer starts with kind of having that conversation early and hopefully just building up that strength of character that you do not need to do this action in order to be accepted by this group or this person.
 | 32:21 | Right. Yeah. I think I'm going to have to go through soon. I'm sure like having those conversations, but not that. Well, listen, Congratulations on that award. That's really amazing and something to be so proud of. And that was just this past year, right? Yes. So you've had a busy life and continue to be a busy person, and now you're a dad.
 | 32:52 | So what was that transition like for you, especially as you're a police officer? Because I think does that mean he's just going to be so much more overprotective? What's that like for you? Well, the fear of being overprotective is real, that's for sure. You know what? Okay, so first of all, being a dad phenomenal. This is great.
 | 33:18 | I have a daughter, as I mentioned, she's two years old and she's phenomenal. That meaning of love is right there. And I'm in her face every time I see it. But being a police officer and a parent is like you have an idea of all the bad things that can happen.
 | 33:42 | And so you kind of have to allow her to explore the world, make those mistakes within reason, and you have to battle your own minds from protecting her so much versus just allowing her to kind of have those dangerous situations so that she knows not to do those things. Right. That'll be a juggling act her entire life. Right. I'm sure all parents would agree. Right.
 | 34:13 | But yeah, being overprotective, I'm afraid. I remember my daughter when she was your daughter's age, and she was walking and she opened the door and fell out of the house under the cement. And so she was bleeding. And a friend of mine said because I was so upset. And a friend of mine said, is this the first time she's fallen like that? And I thought, first time?
 | 34:43 | Oh my. I would think you'd be the most amazing dad. Thank you. So we're going to switch now and talk about that your life went sideways and that was related to health. And so can you take me through?
 | 35:13 | First of all, when you started to wonder if there's something going on with your body and how things progressed? Yeah. So it happened so quickly. My daughter at the time was seven months old and life was good. I was doing some really great things. I was parenting.
 | 35:40 | I felt like I was contributing to the team as much as I could. This team being the marriage and my daughter and everything like that. Right. I was also hitting personal physical goals. I just done like a ten kilometer run for the first time. That was a goal of mine. I had done 100 kilometer bike ride. That was another goal of mine. I felt great.
 | 36:06 | I felt strong physically, mentally, and I was looking forward to everything with my wife and daughter and just having that whole experience. My work life was great because being in a Detective consultable position, I was like a Monday to Friday kind of eight to four positions. So I was able to be there at night time to put her down to sleep and be there for dinner and have those important moments.
 | 36:37 | So life was going great and I had a little bit of back pain, like in my lower back and hindsight is 2020, but maybe I'm just bending over too much on the bike, right? And then eventually I stopped being able to go to the washroom so my bladder wasn't able to void anymore. And that was the day when I went to the hospital and I just said, hey, something's up.
 | 37:06 | So in the hospital, in the emergency room, they ended up putting like a bag capital. And I was able to then empty my bladder and they were thinking, oh, maybe this is Prostatitis or something like this. And Googling that quickly came up with some old bikers, like people who ride bicycles, they could get Prostatitis, right? So here's some antibiotics and hopefully they'll get better, right?
 | 37:36 | Okay, cool. So we've got a solution to the problem. But that was just the beginning. That was my body just shutting down at that point and it got worse. Let's also mention we're now doing this during a pandemic. So, like, is this Covid? And there's no respiratory issues? There's no, like, I don't have sniffles, I don't have any of the common things.
 | 38:05 | But then there was also those reports of people testing positive for COVID and not having any of those symptoms, right? So tests for Covid were negative. And eventually it came down to I had to go into the shower almost every 20 minutes to get hot water, just going down on my lower back because my lower back was just on fire.
 | 38:30 | And that moment, one of the times in the shower, I just fell out of the shower and my legs kind of gave out. And my wife, we're trying to stay away from each other, right? Because what if this is Covid? We still have to look after our daughter. So we were trying to isolate from each other and I needed the shower, which there was one in our house at that time. So she heard this Lego. I'm like six, three, 230 pounds.
 | 39:00 | So whenever I fell, I shook. And so she came in and she's quite short. She's about 51, 52. She's pulling me up out of the shower, off the floor. And our world changed at that moment. And to add a little bit of levity to the situation, I'm just like, you know what, I just need eggs. Can you make me some eggs? I'm going to feel better if I just had some eggs. That was always the solution growing up.
 | 39:30 | Have some eggs and then you'll feel better if you can go to school. So she gets me into bed, my legs are not working anymore. And that's whenever she's just like, I've had enough here, I'm calling 911. And the ambulance came. I guess at that time my legs were, like, in and out of working.
 | 39:55 | So they were able to kind of like, put their arms around me and get me down the stairs and got me onto the stretcher and took me to the hospital. They ended up finding out later on down the road that I had a condition I guess called this is a long word, but extensive longitudinal transfer. Myelitis if you were to look at an MRI of my spine at that time, it was like I was in a horrific car accident.
 | 40:29 | So they're asking, were you in an accident? Did you fall? I mean, I fell out of the shower, but it wasn't terrible. But my spine was. I have spinal cord injury. I have a spinal cord injury. And I couldn't move my legs at all. I was just bedridden and my bowels were shut down. My bladder was shut down. So I had a catheter in.
 | 40:57 | And I also had something called an Ng tube where there was something like, up through my nose and then down into my stomach that was constantly taking things out of my stomach that didn't need to be there at that time. I couldn't eat anymore. So they had a Pic line in me that was giving me like this. It was in one of those bags that you see on, like, attached to the Gurney. And that's how I got food and everything like that.
 | 41:28 | How long did that go on, that period of time? Well, I guess as soon as I got to the hospital. But that was whenever it was at its worst. Couldn't move my legs, can feel whenever I could feel felt like my skin was on fire. So this is a weird way to articulate it. But my hands gave out also.
 | 41:54 | Like, there was paralysis in my arms at a certain point and breaks my heart to say this, but my wife, she would be by my side and console me and hold my hand. I had to tell her, don't hold my hand because it felt like my hand was on fire. It was numb, it was burning. All these things all mixed into one. It was terrible. How long did it go on? Far too long.
 | 42:19 | But I guess part of the treatment for that was they hooked me up to this machine that was going to give me like a transfusion. So ten days worth of steroids and plasma. And so they were just kind of circulating this in and out of my body for ten days. And then eventually my big toe, which was like massive.
 | 42:50 | I've with technology and everything like that. You've got memories that pop up on your phone and this is what happened to you, like, six months ago, one year ago. And that video of me doing that comes up moving my toes and the joy was just so amazing. Can I ask you, did you ever any point think I'm going to die looking back?
 | 43:28 | No, there's no I'm going to die. I think the people around me maybe, like, there's a possibility, maybe. But I don't think that wasn't what I was willing to accept my perspective and keep in mind, I was being comfortable with drugs. There was involved and things like this, but that just wasn't an option. Dying wasn't on the table that wasn't there.
 | 43:56 | Being told that you're not going to walk, that was something that lit a fire. The fire was going before this. But perhaps you should start picking out a wheelchair or thinking about life in a wheelchair. Right.
 | 44:18 | Those were big things to start adjusting your entire life plan, having an active lifestyle, and then going down to not having necessarily an active lifestyle. Being in a wheelchair, that was scary, right? Yeah. It shatters your world. Let's be real. That shatters your world. Yeah. How did you stay you then?
 | 44:46 | Because this is what I'm hearing, that you stayed you. And it's the person that you were talking about when you were saying about at the beginning of each of your martial arts program sessions, you had a mantra, everybody had a mantra and so on. You obviously are an incredibly strong person. How did you stay being you? It's not something that I had to try. Right.
 | 45:14 | Because like you said from day one, early on my development, I'm building this resilience. Right. I'm building it. And it's part of my character. Right. It's part of who I am. How did I stay? Neat. I had my wife by my side. She was there. I saw it in her eyes all the time.
 | 45:45 | Just how hurt she was from this experience, having my mom there, too. There's only two people who are allowed to see me in the hospital. Right. And they would rotate coming in and just to be with me and everything like that. I'm sure there is, like, down times. Right. But it's just not in me to be defeated. That's not an option. Right. And it's not like I have choices in front of me. And it's like, well, I could be defeated or I can't be defeated.
 | 46:14 | It was just there is no fee here, right? Yeah. It's really hard to say how I stayed me, but I can say it's just it wasn't an option to not be. So that was it. And like, my wife, she even said it, too. She was like, she was worried that this event would change me. Right. And she's like, I can accept you being a wheelchair. I can accept all these changes for you.
 | 46:45 | But the kind of that silver lining is that I was still Kent. Yeah. I was still joking with her. I was still pranking, and I was still positive I was still mean. Right. My entire life led to that moment of, well, if this is the way it's going to be, this is the way it's going to be. But I'm still need. Did you pick out a wheelchair?
 | 47:15 | Yeah, I was looking at other cool ones that could go, like, offroading. Right. So you could go on trails because even, like with my daughter and wife, we would go to the conservation and I'd have my daughter strapped to my chest and we'd go on these hikes and my daughter would be passed out. It was great. And we were still active. We were out in the sun. It was great.
 | 47:43 | And I was like, well, this is going to continue. So I'm going to need to get a wheelchair that can go off road. Right. And then I started looking at vehicles that could get wheelchairs in and everything like that. And then the Ontario Spinal cord injury, I think it's an association, but they had a representative come. And this gentleman, he was in a wheelchair. He drove there. He can get in and out of a car.
 | 48:14 | I started looking at people who would be like me. And I was like, okay, if they can do it, I can do it. This is just going to be one of those things. I'm going to be in a wheelchair, but I'm going to do everything I did before in a wheelchair. Yeah. Are you in a wheelchair, Ken? No, I'm not. I'm walking around and I've got goals to do, like a five kilometer run.
 | 48:45 | That's where I'm going to top out. Like, I'm just okay with the five K. I've been out in the past week doing something. It's usually called couch to five K program. I'm going to do wheelchair to five K program, and I'm going to do that five K. I can walk and I've got the ability to do this. Right. I'm pretty recovered as far as it goes.
 | 49:15 | Right. I have some issues with some big issues. Right. I don't have control over my pocket. I don't have control over my bowels. So I have routines to do that. And life is different in that sense. But it's just invisible now. Right. You must be sold amazed, though, at the power of your body and how it's trying to do its best.
 | 49:48 | Absolutely. Yeah. And it's ability to bounce back, right. Yeah. Quite honestly, looking back, maybe I was preparing for this type of injury. Right. Like going on those bike rides, going on those runs, being strong to do that physically, I believe I have the mental strength to get through this, and I definitely have the physical strength to get through it.
 | 50:18 | Yeah. It's an amazing story, and it is such a story of resilience. And I think appreciation, too, of life. And what we have is your wife and your daughter and your mom and your family and so on. These things really make us appreciate everything. Absolutely. I'm regularly turning to my wife and I'll smile.
 | 50:51 | She'll smile. She knows what's on my mind. And we'll both at the same time say we are so lucky. We're often just looking at her daughter saying that, but we kind of reflect on our experience. And I know that I had the injury, but I truly think that my wife had the short end of that. She she's the one who had so much to go through. She had a husband who had we didn't know what was wrong with me. We still don't know what caused all of this.
 | 51:21 | It was a virus that my body just kind of saw and then attacked and continued and just attacked my entire spinal cord. But she had to deal with that. Plus a seven month old baby and then pandemic and then not being able to see me on a regular kind of situation. Okay. So I had some issues.
 | 51:47 | She went through so much, and she's the strong one. Well, that's the thing, right? We stand by the people we love, and that's what we do. And that's what she did. And I'm sure in many ways, it was an honor. Remember that?
 | 52:11 | How long were you off work has been so amazing to me. I was in the hospital for three months, and when I got out of the hospital, I had a Walker like the silver one that has the slides and then also a wheelie Walker that you could kind of turn around and sit on.
 | 52:41 | So that's how I got out of the hospital. And then there was about three months of me being at home and kind of just kind of getting accommodated to this whole situation, possibly dealing with just limited mobility and then continuing to go through rehab. And then six months. Then I got a phone call from my Sergeant, and he was just like, hey, listen, if you are ready, we have the ability to allow you to work from home, right?
 | 53:14 | And my surgeon at the time, he knew that I'm a worker. Right. I got to have something to do. And he's just like, if you're open to it, there's no pressure. If you're open to it, you can work from home. We could use you, and I'm sure you could use us, right? Yeah. I had a very long conversation with my wife, and I was just like, is this something that you're comfortable with?
 | 53:44 | And we both decided that, yeah, this is something we could do and especially like, part of the recovery to start taking that next step. It was quick, but it was within my realm of comfort and also my family's realm of comfort. So we got set up. So it was about six months, and I was off sick, and then I started coming back modified, working from home.
 | 54:11 | And then after that, I got an opportunity to be the acting Sergeant of the technological Crime unit. And so I was able to do that for another six months. And I actually came back to work. And that was difficult because at that point, I was finished rehabilitation. The rehab doctor was just like, you're good to be discharged, to continue your own rehab.
 | 54:40 | They were confident that I was able to continue just because of my own drive. They understood that I'm not going to sit still. So going back to work and just walking down the halls and seeing people who had reached out fine cards, send me the texts. It was an emotional journey right from the entire moment. And I still feel emotional about the entire thing.
 | 55:11 | But it was almost a year right before I was able to get back to this state of walking around and driving and doing all these things. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, isn't it, about work? Because lots of times we denigrate work because it's called work. It's not called fun, but work does a lot for us.
 | 55:39 | There's just something that occasionally I think it's a good idea to appreciate work and having to use your mind or having to use your hands or having to do something that contributes in some sort of way, and that's your work and that's you doing your work. It's powerful. It truly is. Especially like, I love my job. It's just so satisfying.
 | 56:06 | And it's a challenge. You get these little challenges and then get to Peel apart and you kind of get to figure out the inner workings. And it's a puzzle. It's absolutely rewarding, for sure. Yeah, it is. So, Ken, I have my three questions that I sent you. Are you still good to answer my questions? My three, yes. Okay. So my first question is, what has been the best advice you've received?
 | 56:39 | So I've kind of grilled myself about this question, and I want to say that it's probably from one of my coach officers. I can't tell you which one, but it was to tell the truth. Right. And obviously to get where I was gotten.
 | 57:00 | I haven't made a habit of lying and things like this, but really owning your mistakes was what I took away from that and just immediately. Right. Like, you make a mistake, own up to it. And what are we going to do about it if it needs to be fixed or what are we going to learn from it so that we don't make mistakes again? The more you kind of do this, the easier it is to stand up and be like, yeah, that's my fault.
 | 57:34 | And this is what I did. This is what was wrong, and this is what I learned from it. Right. Yeah. It's so important, actually, especially in my line of work. Like if you make mistakes, you need to own it quickly or else that just becomes a whole other story. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Just ownership stinks, right. Okay. That's a good one. Secondly, is there a book that you've read that has influenced you or helped you? Yes.
 | 58:03 | So we talked earlier about being mentally prepared, especially for being a police officer. And I was lucky enough to become a police officer in the era of acknowledging the fact that you need mental hardening and strength and strategy. So when I got hired, there was a book that was given to us to read and to share with our family because the mental health strategy isn't like a solo effort.
 | 58:35 | It takes a community. Right. So the book is called Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement, and it's by Dr. Gil Martin. And one of the analogies that comes from that book that really helped me was that you don't just get injured from well, I mean, of course you can. You don't just get injured from one event. It's possible. But throughout your career, you're going to pick up these little pebbles, and those little pebbles are going to be tiny little injuries.
 | 59:05 | And you're going to put those in your backpack. And after 25, 30 years, you picked up so many pebbles and so many are bigger, some are smaller that you have in your backpack that it is just so heavy. And for one person to carry that is so difficult. And it's so important to kind of offload those pebbles and the big rocks as you go and you upload them through communication. And that's how I do it.
 | 59:34 | It's through communication, speaking to your loved ones, your mother, your wife, your coworkers, and then also kind of dealing with it physically, too. Right. Getting your workouts in running, biking, doing whatever kind of empties your tank and gets your mind in that kind of Zen area is so important. And so this book really kind of articulated it.
 | 01:00:04 | Obviously, you have to have a strategy, but which one are you going to choose? Which one do you have? Right. And so it just made it super important to me to speak with people about all these hard things I've experienced. Right. Finally, my third question is what advice would you give your younger self? This one, this is so hard.
 | 01:00:29 | So I don't think I would want to tell myself anything because knowing myself, I would use that as something that would reaffirm my future. Right. So if I said everything's going to be okay, then maybe I wouldn't try as hard or maybe those moments of fear and grind to obtain what I wanted to achieve might not happen. You know what? Maybe.
 | 01:00:56 | And this a little bit of humor, but maybe I'd say don't use so much because it might affect something. Right. But yeah, I wouldn't want to risk affecting my decisions by telling myself that it's going to be okay or don't do this or don't do that because I've arrived at this stage of my life, being 35 years old, I'm so satisfied with my life.
 | 01:01:27 | I've got an amazing wife, an amazing daughter, have an amazing career. I've got an amazing family. I've got so much to be thankful for that I'd just be so worried to change everything to mess with the formula. Yeah, right. It worked. So stand back and maybe watch and just be like, hey, I remember that. And then that's good enough for me. But yeah, maybe just off the jump a little bit.
 | 01:01:58 | That's a great one. That's great to hear. I think that's everything that I wanted to chat about and I so appreciate you chatting about. Is there anything that you want to add before we wrap up? I think if anyone who's listening wants to have a rewarding career, the negative view of policing aside, it's an amazing career, right.
 | 01:02:30 | You can do so much in policing. I think it's still a very great career and it's rewarding. So I think anyone who's looking to be a police officer will make that career change and go into policing. If they're considering it, I think it's a great idea.
 | 01:02:55 | Well, let me just say that for the most part I just think it's an incredibly well it is an incredibly important profession and we're so appreciative of having that serve and protect because that's how lucky are we, right?
 | 01:03:17 | Anyway, thank you so much for joining me today, Ken, I really appreciate this conversation. Absolutely. So did I. Thank you so much for having me on here. Thank you for the invite. It's great. Thank you so much. Okay. And to our viewers and listeners this has been quite a conversation with Ken and I hope that you take out of it many things. I certainly have. The resilience of people is just astounding and so impressive.
 | 01:03:46 | I know we need to have it, but it's wonderful to see examples of great people who have been and are resilient so wonderful to chat with Ken today. Please follow me on YouTube and listen wherever you get your podcasts and check out my website careerresilience.com where there's more about me and all the interviews that I've done so far. So until we meet again. Thanks.