S2: Episode 19: Ian Hillis, CPA and Triathlete

"You start questioning all your life choices because it’s a long day out there."
 
Ian chose his career in Accounting and became a Partner at Ford Keast at a very young age. But wait, there's more: Ian is a triathlete competing against himself and always working on his swim/bike/run skills. He chose a very challenging sport.
 
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Transcript

 | 00:06 | Welcome to season two of Career Resilience, where we talk with people about their career path and their career journey and maybe we can all learn from each other. My name is Jann Danyluk and I'm a human resources consultant sent in London, Ontario, Canada. I work with Ford Keast LLP, providing human resources advice and counsel to my business clients. I also support people through individual one on one coaching and helping with career development.

 | 00:33 | I hope you will enjoy our series where we talk with ordinary, extraordinary people. We get to hear about interesting journeys. We get to talk with people about failures, successes, advice and counsel to us as we develop our own careers. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with these people, and I hope you will enjoy listening to it. And now for some logistics, please subscribe on YouTube. Or if you're a listener, please follow me wherever you get your podcast.
 
| 01:01 | And if you have a chance, I hope you'll visit my website. Careerresilience.com. Welcome. My guest today is Ian Hillis. Ian, welcome to Career Resilience. Thanks, Jan. Happy to be here. I'm so happy you're here.
 
| 01:30 | We have plenty to talk about, and what we're going to do is divide it into two. First of all, we'll talk a bit about your career, and then we'll talk about your career in running and biking. That's sort of predominantly what we want to speak about today. And in the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that you and I work together, so I just wanted to put that out there here at Ford Keast in London, Ontario. So let's get started.
 
| 01:59 | You are a CPA, a Chartered professional accountant. That is correct. What attracted you to that profession? Initially, it wasn't something that I thought I was going to fall in love with. It was, you know, you're in high school and you're trying to figure out your career path and taking suggestions from everybody and thinking about what you're good at and what you're not good at. So just happened to take a chance on a high school co-op position that was in accounting and actually semi enjoyed it.
 
| 02:30 | It was the kind of work that I like to do with numbers and just problem solving. And from there, I applied to University and just went all in on it. It also seemed like something that at the time, I'm not a big risk taker. I didn't want to just jump too far out of my comfort zone. So getting into it seemed like a good career choice and something that I could be successful at.

 | 02:57 | Now you chose to work in public accounting as opposed to a lot of CPAs who decide to go into industry. What is it that you like about public accounting? I just like the variety of it. More than anything. You get to deal with a lot of different people, a lot of different businesses, clients every day. It's kind of a new challenge. There's always a new problem to solve, a new struggle to work through. So that variety just changes up every day.

 | 03:27 | And I could be wrong working in private industry. Maybe it's just a sort of dynamic, but it doesn't feel like it would be that way. I know for myself if I'm driving around the city and I see a truck or building that has one of our clients names on it, I always think, wow, that's so cool. I'm just so proud of that fact for some reason. It just makes me feel really good about what we offer as a firm.

 | 03:58 | And of course I'm on the human resources side, as we know. Yes, I know. And we feel the same way for sure. Yeah. Nice to know. Yeah. Now you became a partner at quite a young age. Is being a partner in a firm different than what you expected? I think it's a lot different. It's hard to know even what to expect, I guess. I did work here for a long time before I got into partnerships, so I kind of saw what the partners did.

 | 04:32 | But until you step into that role, you don't really understand the duties. And I know I've heard you talk about it in other podcasts, just especially with entrepreneurs and working in the business or on the business. I know I never appreciated the work that goes into working on it as opposed to just dealing with the client work in that kind of aspect of it. But so much of your day and your week and your month is just taken up with a lot of duties that you just never saw coming.

 | 05:01 | What do you think is the key component in being a good partner to your partners? That's a good question. I think it's hard to say one exact item, but definitely one of the bigger things is just being there for everybody else and being part of the team and a team player with the partners and doing everything you need to do to kind of make the firm successful and making sure you can continue working together and progressing.

 | 05:30 | And I think you've heard me say this before. I think that partnerships are like marriages. The difference being with a marriage, you get to sleep a good portion of the time that you're together. Right. A partnership, it can be very intense. Absolutely. And being in a good partnership is something to be super grateful for. I want to be United, for sure.

 | 05:59 | United, yeah. It helps to be United. I also want to say that you and I partner because I work very closely with you and so that means that I get to observe you working and so on. And I would just like to tell you how great it is to partner small P partner with you because you are so supportive and so compassionate to people.

 | 06:27 | And that's really important because it can be that you get so absorbed with the business and everything, as you say, working on the business, in the business and so on. So I just wanted to point that out about you. That means a lot to the people that work with you. You have been a runner for quite some time, and I wanted to switch over and talk about that because that's predominantly what we wanted to discuss today. So you're a runner and a biker.

 | 06:55 | So how do I define that sport of yours? We participate in triathlons, so swim, bike run. I generally don't identify myself, I guess, as a runner or as a cyclist or as a swimmer or anything. I just try not to label it, I guess, but for more or less, I'm a triathlete. But in general, I like to just think that I'm an athlete. I'll do a little bit of everything, not just when Mike run, but there's a lot of things that I'm interested in and take up some of my time.

 | 07:30 | What do you do beyond swim, bike run? Just a lot of little one off things. So I try to golf as much as I can. In the winter, I ski and snowboard, especially with my kids now that they're getting into it. In the summer, we do some water sports when I can. It's not always so easy, but like water skiing, wakeboarding, that kind of stuff. So there's always something that keeps us busy. Also play a lot of just sports with my kids as they're all into various things.

 | 08:00 | Basketball, baseball, soccer. Yeah, that's a lot. It is a lot. You can't get really good in anything to do just a little bit of everything, though. That's the problem. Yeah, well, I think it's not the definition of a Renaissance person dabble in a whole bunch of things. Yeah, I did want to focus on swim, bike, run, because that's predominantly, I think, where you went when you went into sport and why were you attracted to that kind of sport?

 | 08:36 | I just like the challenge of it really. It's not just focusing on one thing and drilling. That one specific aspect. Going back to what we talked about before, it's just variety, keeping things a little bit fresh and doing something a little bit different every day. And it's a lot to bite off sometimes to think I have to train in all of these three sports all the time and a lot of days you're doing at least two of them.

 | 09:03 | But yeah, just the challenge of it for me personally. And it's not even necessarily the competition against other people that really gets it. It's just trying to make yourself better. When did you start? How young were you when you got into these sports? Yeah. So I wasn't very young. I was 28 or 29, so, yeah, all through high school I play basketball. I'm a little bit on the taller side, so that just kind of came naturally to me.

 | 09:32 | And after University and starting here and in accounting, I kind of fell off doing anything. You'd work, you'd come home. And I wasn't in a routine of fitness or working out or sports at all. So after four or five years of that, I was like how to really find something to bring a little bit of competition back into my life and do something just a little bit more challenging, get off my desk chair and do something a little bit more exciting. So it wasn't until closer to 30 that I got into it.

 | 10:03 | So how important is it to you, the fitness aspect of it, just as far as just keeping myself bit, I guess I don't do it just to stay in good shape. I do it more just because I love doing these activities. And if that means I'm in better shape, that's great. And that is a product of working out every day and doing things that you're going to get more fit.

 | 10:35 | But for me, it's not so much about just staying in shape, that's for sure. That's interesting, isn't it, because I think a lot of us are attracted to maybe I'm wrong on this, but attracted to doing these kinds of things to be fit. But you're saying for you that's almost a byproduct. Yeah, for sure it is. I think a lot of people start off in a sport like Triathlon because they want to lose weight or they have maybe some habits they're trying to improve on.

 | 11:05 | But for me it was just more just challenging myself and doing something I love and just trying to improve. Okay. When you're out there and doing these things, what do you think about most of the time you don't think about a lot of stuff. You're pretty focused on what you're doing, how hard you're going, how fast you're going, what your heart rate is at, how many Watts I'm pushing on the bike, all these different sort of metrics and kind of being an accountant, maybe I'm a little bit too focused on the numbers, but there's a lot of numbers you can look at to kind of judge where you're at.

 | 11:43 | So at least a half, if not two thirds of every sort of workout, run bikes or whatever, is just thinking about how hard am I working? And is this where I should be working? Should I be harder, should I be going easier? And then the other third to a half is just thinking about what I'm going to eat when I'm done because for whatever reason, you're hungry and it's always a little bit of a reward to think about. You have to consume calories, I guess, while you're doing some of these longer workouts.

 | 12:15 | But yeah, just thinking about what I'm going to make after it's generally a really good care to get through the workout, especially longer three or four hour events that I do have a go to meal. No, I don't really that's a good question. But whatever, honestly, you think about all this stuff and then it's usually you get home and you're tired, it's just whatever. The easiest thing to put together is what it is.

 | 12:44 | Okay. This is a weird question. Do you ever feel nauseous when you're out there? I do, actually. And I have a little bit of a sensitive stomach to begin with. So I think my stomach struggles with a little bit with this stuff, especially if you try to get in too much water or other kind of sports rings during your event.

 | 13:11 | I had a history of being sick, especially running quite often, like if I would do a race or a hard worker that I would be vomiting during or after because my stomach, whether it was just my stomach or the whole body just reacting and you just sort of think, okay, that's just part of the whole thing going to be ill now. Yeah. That's just a result of working pretty hard that my stomach says get this out of here and we'll keep going.

 | 13:44 | Do you mind telling us about and I don't know why this is always so interesting, but one of your worst experiences? Yeah, for sure. I definitely had a few really challenging events and it seems to be the first time you do something is always the hardest to kind of get over that hump. And a lot of these things you do and all you think about during the race for the event is why do I do this to myself?

 | 14:13 | And you really start questioning all of your life choices? Because it's a long day out there. But my first Ironman Triathlon, which is if you don't know, for me it's about eleven to twelve hour event of swimming, biking and running. Got through the swim okay, got through the bike fairly well. And on the run it was fairly hot. Started not feeling great after an hour, I guess, into the run and just did a poor job of hydrating.

 | 14:46 | Started kind of wobbling all over and was a little incoherent. And so there's these aid stations along the way where they give you water and food and bananas and that kind of stuff. And they saw me on one aid station and made me sit down for 20 minutes. And then one of the medical people there basically said we don't think you could continue. It was still 20 go to get to the end.

 | 15:13 | And they ended up driving me in an ambulance back to the end, stuck a couple of IVs in me and got me rehydrated. And the next day I was pretty disappointed that I wasn't able to finish it because it was all in my control and how much effort I put in and my poor ability to hydrate during the race. But definitely it was a good decision not to continue, but it was pretty disappointing to come out of that. So I think about that a lot.

 | 15:42 | Why do you think Ian that the predominant feeling you had was disappointment. And everything that you're doing is so above and beyond. There's a lot behind that because you put a lot of effort into getting to this place, get to the start line, be trained, be ready to do these events. And you also have a big support crew behind you. I have a wife who's very supportive in this kind of stuff and is a bit of a rock star in helping me get through things.

 | 16:13 | And I have three kids who put up with me doing this stuff. And if I'm taking time away from family to train for this stuff and sometimes to go away without them to do events, you want to make sure you're kind of doing that justice and putting in an effort and not failing at those events. Just disappointing. I don't think it's disappointing for them. My wife would not say that. But you kind of want to perform just to kind of give back a little bit, do my part.

 | 16:46 | Yeah. Okay. How much of any sport that you're involved in is up here? Yeah, huge amount for sure. There's definitely a lot of different, obviously, research and science on this kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, it's just willing yourself to get through it and having a little bit of discipline to just keep putting that foot in front of the other and get through it.

 | 17:14 | It's not always the most enjoyable part. A lot of times you do this because you say, I like it, and I love it. You want to enjoy an event, but it always gets to a point where you're having this mental battle and depending how long the event is, you're going to have a lot of ups and downs where you kind of fluctuate between having a good race and not such a good race. But yeah, 80% of it is for sure. Just keeping engaged and disciplined and pushing through.

 | 17:46 | So I asked you about the worst. Can you tell us about a time that you just felt this is so fabulous? That's a good question. Honestly, not a lot really sticks. So much of what you do, you kind of forget. I imagine you do anything hard, obviously have not been through childbirth, but how anybody goes and has a second kid after having their first one, I don't know, but your brain just kind of flips a switch.

 | 18:20 | And I actually just got back yesterday from doing a Triathlon down in Tennessee and felt kind of awful in the last half an hour or so. I was thinking maybe I'm done for a while after this one, but 24 hours later you're back thinking, what could I have done different? I got to get back in the pool or on my bike or whatever, and I'm going to head right back out there and do another one because you just know I'm going to do better. I didn't answer your question.

 | 18:50 | About what's a really good event because usually I don't know that I've had the perfect race. I guess where you feel great the whole time. Usually I'm pushing myself a little bit beyond my limits because my expectations always exceed my fitness a little bit. But there's definitely a lot of high points in the races where you really enjoy it, and I guess the endorphins are flowing and usually the best races are when you're just feeling competitive.

 | 19:23 | For me, I'm not always going to be near the front, but I'm not typically near the back. But if you're just in a group of people that are kind of suffering the same way you are and pushing through and it makes it a lot more enjoyable, that's for sure. Is there such a thing as a runner's high? I hear there is. I don't know that I experienced it exactly. For me, it's really just the satisfaction of having gotten through the run.

 | 19:53 | Often you don't want to go out the door and you always feel better that you did the run after or whatever the workout was. It a community that you're in. Like, do you see the same people when you go these different places? Oh, for sure. It definitely is. And there's a lot of training groups out there where people work together and see each other a lot and work towards the same events.

 | 20:21 | The last few years I've been doing a lot more solo training, just again, with working with kids and family, it's hard to fit in those schedules. Okay. This group is working every Wednesday at six and every Saturday at 08:00 a.m. Or fitting that into my schedule is not always the easiest, so I'll be doing a lot more on my own largely before the kids wake up and after they go to bed. It's a big time for me to fit in some training, but it is definitely a very close community, too, because there's only so many people in every area.

 | 20:55 | Yeah. Is there a difference that you find in terms of your results in solo training versus with the group? Yeah, it's a lot easier to push yourself in group training, that's for sure. Again, just having that camaraderie and other people out there doing the same thing, sometimes it could be a detriment because maybe you're pushing yourself too hard and doing things you shouldn't be doing and trying to be competitive with people that are maybe out of your League.

 | 21:24 | But for the most part, definitely a lot more successful when you can train with others. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense when you are working running and biking and swimming and you're doing well, which is your favorite component of those three. Yeah.

 | 21:52 | I tend to like the cycling better during an event, that's for sure. The training aspect of 
it varies all the time. Running is just so easy because you just put on a pair of shoes and go out the door. But things like cycling and swimming. So I'm planning involved in your timing and when you're going to do it and how long you're going to be and the rents are going to take and get to the pool and what their hours are.

 | 22:19 | So running is a lot easier and training generally I prefer to run. I like it in the races. For whatever reason, biking is usually the most enjoyable. It's the easiest to kind of look around and take in your surroundings. You go to these beautiful places to prevent and then the whole time you're just looking down at your feet more or less. So I think the time I can sort of take a breath and be like, yeah, I'm here, I get to do this. I paid to do this. So I wanted to ask you sort of to the side of it.

 | 22:48 | What is the most scenic place that you've been? There's been a few. I haven't traveled crazy distances, mostly North America. But a couple of years ago, I did a mountain bike race out in Colorado that is definitely one of my favorites, just in the very high mountains. Just something we don't see around here in London, Ontario, Canada.

 | 23:17 | A lot more breathtaking than my usual farm field views here. I have to tell you, Ian, that I was in Europe and we went up to the top of Montblanc. Beautiful get to the top. I thought I was going to die because I could not breathe. And it was such not a good feeling. Right. Because your body is saying there's something weird happening here.

 | 23:46 | How on Earth literally do you do something like Colorado where you're not used to that air? Yeah. No, that was the struggle, for sure. And a lot of people would go early and spend two weeks there before an event, but I'm not going there to win anything. It's just an amateur challenge for me. So you just kind of struggle through it, to be honest with you. And it was tough.

 | 24:11 | It was an event that I thought I would finish under 10 hours, and there was a twelve hour time limit, and I was 11 hours and 53 minutes or something. And it's close. But because you get to these 12,000 plus feet of elevation and you just can't breathe and my body is definitely not used to it. Not that anybody really excels at that elevation, but, yeah, again, you just kind of pushed through and I had to take a couple of breaks, obviously, to just get my energy back and get some oxygen in it.

 | 24:46 | But that was definitely a challenge. I don't know if I can do it again, but something that right after I never wanted to do it again. Now I always think back like, oh, what could I have done? But that was one that you're just dissatisfaction and the joy of finishing that and just squeaking kind of under that timeline, too.

 | 25:11 | Yeah, pretty good I felt bad for my poor wife and kids who were sitting at the finish line for two whole hours thinking, where is he ever going to finish or is he sitting they fall off the side of the mountain somewhere and he can't really give him updates. I remember that one. I remember we were all cheering you on from work and getting updates and thinking about you and send vibes and all those things because we're so proud of you that you do this because you're one of our own.

 | 25:49 | Wow. Now you recently did the Boston Marathon. Is that some sort of pinnacle for people like me? It is for sure, because you have to qualify for it and hit a certain time goal, I guess. So just getting that sort of qualification standard is a big thing and it depends how competitive you are, obviously. But for me, it was a big deal just knowing that, okay, I'm fast enough for this.

 | 26:20 | And yeah, I don't know what else to say about it, but definitely it's a bit of a highlight knowing I've kind of gotten to that stage. Are you a highly competitive person internally, yes? I don't know that I always exude that to other people, but definitely very competitive.

 | 26:43 | And it's hard to let that go, especially in a van like a Boston Marathon with 30,000 people that I'm not really competing against most of these people. It's really just competing against yourself and making sure you pull out the best that you can from yourself. Yeah, that's a big thing. Outside of that, if I play one basketball against my 14 year old daughter, I still struggle to let her win.

 | 27:15 | Oh, I doubt that ever happened. She wins fair and square. So does any of your knowledge that you have learned from all this competing and all this pushing and pushing yourself, does this help you in other parts of your life? I think for sure, because again, it's building a lot of that mental strength and willpower and discipline, just even getting out of bed.

 | 27:42 | And I know you know this because you do a lot of working out in different fitness things. Right. And just trying to organize your day to fit all this stuff in. So there's a few things where it benefits you, but really that willpower just to do something that maybe you're not crazy about doing at 05:00 A.m.. So that definitely translates into your family life and your work life.

 | 28:06 | But you're not always going to love every single moment of what you do, but try to spin it a little bit and really take joy, I guess, in the price that you do prefer to do. And that's a big part of it, for sure. Yeah. I always find it's not the doing, it's the starting. Once I'm doing, I'm happy. And you know what's odd? I never remember that the next time I have to start.

 | 28:37 | And I think, why is that? Why don't I remember how much I enjoy it once I start it? What is going on? Yeah, I don't know where the dread comes into just getting going, whether, you know, it's going to be a little bit difficult to get through it and that turns you off, or we're just inherently lazy and don't actually want to do anything else. Maybe when you think about resilience and your swimming, running, biking career, what comes to mind to you for the resilience?

 | 29:14 | How are you resilient there? I think just responding to adversity is a big thing. Every event there's going to be some adversity that comes up just like in your life and just being able to adapt to that or respond to that. Whether you go flat tire in a bike race or you're throwing up on the side of the road or somebody ran into you, there's always going to be something that happens and you have to just respond to that and decide whether you're going to let it beat you and you're going to quit that day or you're going to continue on and you're going to just do the best you can from there on in, despite having maybe things not going your way.

 | 29:55 | Well, that's really good in terms of being an athlete. Is that how you mostly define yourself as an athlete? I guess you don't. Right. You're so many things. Yeah. In general, in life. No, I do not identify myself as an athlete, for sure, but I would like to I'd like people to view me that way, but it's not something I really focus on. Yeah. Well, we do view you that way.

 | 30:24 | We're always amazed at what you accomplish. I mentioned to you that I have three questions for you, and the first one is, what is the best career advice you've received? And I think I'd like to actually ask you on the career side, what's the best career advice you've received? Yeah. And I think this works for career as well as maybe just doing some of these other crazy things that I do, which is fairly early on, I guess in my accounting career.

 | 30:57 | I just got the advice just to not take yourself so seriously. You're not always doing the most important thing in the building. It's okay to have a little bit of fun when you're at work and just be there for other people and be open to helping others out and. Yeah. Just really not take yourself so seriously. It's not always all about the deadlines and the perfection. Yeah, that's good.

 | 31:27 | And Secondly, I wanted to ask you about a book that has influenced you. Yeah. So one that is maybe a little bit more geared towards kind of the sports side of it that read a couple of years ago from an author, a guy named David Goggins. He's an ex Marine and had a lot of struggles coming up. The book is called Can't Hurt Me. I think it's just a good book.

 | 31:58 | If you struggle to get out of bed or to get through doing workouts or even just trying to hit some potential in your life, just reading through his life story and then sort of his advice on kind of really maximizing your potential was just kind of a good kick in the behind to just kind of push through and know that you can do this stuff.

 | 32:24 | You're always capable of a lot more than what your brain thinks. And thirdly, what advice would you give your younger self? For me, personally, I think it would be just be more confident in your skills that you have or on the sports side in the training you've put in.

 | 32:50 | Coming up in school and high school, I was definitely an introvert and not always the most confident person and always second guessing things and trying to shy away from things. But I think if I just told myself that just have some faith in your knowledge and your talents, I think it could have been a lot more successful in a few areas. Yeah.

 | 33:18 | We're not exactly the most supportive people to ourselves, are we? No. I often wonder why that is. So sometimes when I'm working out because I work out with different coaches and so on. And one of the things is always said, just be grateful that you have a body that can work out. Yeah, that's great.

 | 33:48 | And I think, wow, how amazing is it to have a body that can work out and can do the things that you can do and to appreciate that and thank ourselves for giving us this ability and this skill set, as opposed to frequently saying you could do better or you could be better or Why aren't you better?

 | 34:20 | All those kinds of things. Now, I know that's because we know what's going on inside. We know how hard we have to work. And to your point earlier about difficult things happening, and you know, you're going to have to surmount those things. And we do. We actually always do or something else comes out of it or some learning comes from it, but not very often do we say to ourselves, oh, my God, you're amazing.

 | 34:53 | Yeah, basically never. You always want to just beat yourself up over everything. Why did you think I was on that? That's why it's important also to kind of surround yourself with people who are supportive and we'll be there for you. And I don't think a lot of the stuff I do is that exciting or not exciting, but impressive, I guess, and partially because I'm surrounded with people who do a lot of this stuff and do a lot more than I do.

 | 35:20 | But having other people in my life to kind of give it a little bit more perspective definitely helps. It's just important to keep working on being our own best friend and being supportive to ourselves and celebrating the victories and having the ability to think and work out to solve problems and help people and help clients and be there for each other.

 | 35:46 | All these things that we bring to the table that if we're not there, it's missed. Pat yourself on the back, Jim. Yeah. We should Pat ourselves on the back. Absolutely. That's important. And of course, I don't think coming up in school and so on is the most confidence building experience for anybody because school can be very challenging and so on.

 | 36:22 | It was such a relief to be a grown up. Yeah. Agreed. Okay. I think that's everything that I wanted to ask you, is there anything that you wanted to add? I think just kind of building on what we're talking about that I was just saying a lot of what I do I don't feel is that impressive, but a lot of people are a little bit intimidated, I guess, by going out and maybe putting themselves into a situation where they have to swim, bike or run or all three.

 | 36:51 | But just encourage anybody just to get out there and start doing this stuff. And you might think you don't love running, but start doing it 3455 days a week. And it's something that you can definitely fall in love with, I think. And for me, a lot of it is just taking a chance and just taking that leap, I guess, and signing up for something and then just do it. And you'll be surprised with what your body and your mind can do.

 | 37:20 | So I definitely encourage everybody, even if you think I don't know if I want to do that. Just sign up for some kind of event, force yourself into it and you'll have fun for sure. Avatar the movie is back, I think, for the fall. It's coming out. And I remember watching the first Avatar and the fellow I don't know if you saw the movie, but the fellow was I don't know if he'd been wounded or what, but he couldn't run.

 | 37:49 | And so his Avatar could run. And I remember watching that and thinking how amazing it is to be able to run like that, to have that skill and that feeling of freedom that he was given and just pretty spectacular to have those options.

 | 38:10 | And I agree with you that if you can do these things, then go out and do them and enjoy and appreciate and don't feel that all of life is work home, which for many people now, we're very fortunate and I'm very fortunate to be able to do all of these kind of things. And I try to look at it that I don't have to get up and run. I get to get up out of bed and go outdoors and run or ride my bike.

 | 38:41 | It's not always that easy, but it's definitely a positive. Yeah. Thank you for chatting with me today. I really appreciate it. Yeah. I'm happy to be here and always good to chat with you, James. Always good to chat with you and to our viewers and listeners. Thanks so much for joining Ian and me today for this great talk and lots to take out of the kind of sport that Ian is involved in and how great it is to be able to do these things.

 | 39:12 | We are truly blessed when we can do these things and appreciate these things and each other and ourselves. If you're a listener, find me wherever you get your podcast. If you're a viewer, we're on YouTube.

 | 39:24 | Thanks so much for joining us today and until we meet again, you're you.