6. Dan Catunto - Career Paths & Working with Vulnerable People

Think you’re going to go in the direction of your schooling? Maybe not. Listen to Jann and Dan Catunto discuss his career steps and why he veered off from his plan to be a civics teacher to assisting vulnerable people in our society.

Dan and his team help people with mental health problems who, through circumstances, were not able to overcome tragedy in their lives such as sexual and physical abuse. 

In many cases, these people chose the path of self-medication and retreat.  Working with individuals with challenges such as homelessness is Dan’s life’s work. His passion and caring for individuals less fortunate is inspiring. Dan also talks about his experience coming out as a gay man when he was in his late teens/early twenties and how that journey also informs the work he does.

Transcript

00:01 | Hello and welcome to our series career resilience where we talk with people about their career path and their career journey. And maybe we can all learn from each other. My name is jammed down with luck and I'm a human resources professional in London Ontario Canada. I work with Ford Keast LLP and I work with my clients to help them with the H.R. side of their business. We hope that you will enjoy these discussions with real people about real challenges and real working life situations.
00:32 | Welcome. Dan welcome to our series career resilience. We're delighted to have you here today and have a chance to talk about your career and your resilience. Where everybody listening. My guest today is Dan Tanto and we're going to talk about his role and his career resilience. Welcome. Dan thank you for having me. Very excited to be here today with you to get us started. Tell us about your current role. So right now I'm an employee with the City of London.
01:02 | So I am the manager of the homeless team within the social services department of the city. I also manage the LEAP program. So this is our learning earning and parenting program so supports for individuals young families young mothers and fathers who are on social assistance. And what led you to this type of work. Well that's interesting because my degrees in political science and I thought one day I was going to be a civics teacher and now I'm I'm here with the city working with the vulnerable populations.
01:33 | I think for me one of the one of the keys to my career path was an opportunity I had I worked for the regional HIV AIDS connection. It was a one year contract right out of western and it it it was very impactful to me. It was working with individuals who were street involved who were homeless who were suffering with addictions and that opportunity to work with them to support them to to help them move along and in reaching their goals whatever that goal may be.
02:07 | It had an impact on me and it would really change the trajectory of my career. So from that point on it was really focused on social services. So my entire career has either been in municipal government or social services and I really I reflect and think that was the starting point of my career decision. You mentioned a phrase there street involve use terms like street involved or living rough. These are individuals that are unsheltered.
02:34 | So these are individuals that are not housed they're not precariously housed kept circling is often the term we use. These are individuals that are actually on our streets in London. These are individuals that are living by the river bank. These are individuals that really have no access to supports other than on the street. So we say street involved as this is their community this is their home is living on our streets and fortunately working alongside those individuals years ago had an impact on me and I wanted to continue to work and support.
03:07 | So that's that's where my career ended. Yeah. So you wanted to and you are doing meaningful work. Thank you. Thank you I appreciate that very much. I'm very blessed to work alongside the individuals I do here on my team. We serve some of the most vulnerable members of our community and it's challenging work for sure. But it's also very meaningful work. So I'm very fortunate to have that experience every day.
03:33 | Oh let's talk a little bit more about your career and we'll come back to these other topics which are so fascinating in terms of where you are in the structure. Are you a city employee. I am a city employee. I'm on the management side so my team. I'm a frontline manager so I operate from city plaza so 90s workers that are on my team we serve approximately seven hundred members of our community.
04:02 | The vast majority of those individuals are no fixed address so these are homeless individuals. In terms of our off the structure here we are the largest social services office in the city. We do have locations throughout the city and there are supports and resources for our homes clients in any of our social services offices. But the hub is primarily the city plaza authority of the clients that we serve again our streets involved or living in one of the shelters and the shelters are located near downtown.
04:35 | So we are the hub we are busy office. Tell me about the application process if somebody applies. What has driven them to apply. Let's start there. A whole host a whole host of different reasons Ontario Works.
04:56 | We provide supports and services to a vast and a wide range of members of our community so we have individuals that have university level education straight through to newly arrived Canadians that they are experiencing Canada for the first time and they're needing their needing supports to to integrate into their new community so it can be a very wide range.
05:26 | The vast majority and I'll speak specifically to the teams that report to me are individuals that have either lost their housing have had a challenging time securing housing. These are individuals that are that are dealing with the compounding issues of mental health and addiction as well. So what we want to do is eliminate the barriers of housing addictions mental health so that our support our our counterparts and General Pace management teams can work with that individual in whatever their employment may be.
06:00 | So we're working with a population that's a little bit further away from their employment goals I'm sure he works at the end of the day is an employment agency. But my focus and our focus as a team is the elimination of some of the life barriers that would limit someone's employment opportunities. I have heard that all of us are four steps away from living on the street based on decisions that we make.
06:30 | Can can you speak to that. That's very to me that's a very scary concept. What are your thoughts on that. I certainly a few thoughts I think I think there is a perception perhaps not a positive perception unfortunately a negative perception that you know it's people's choices around being lazy or not wanting to work or decisions that have led down this path.
07:01 | While you're choosing to take drugs you're choosing to live on the street. I've been doing this for nearly five years and I can honestly say of the thousands upon thousands of individuals I've met no one chooses to be homeless no one chooses to live by the river bank. It's unfortunate that we have so many so many members of our community that find themselves in that situation. But to get to that place for a lot of individuals it's it's a whole host of different reasons why they're there.
07:32 | It's not one specific issue. It is those concomitant issues and mental health addiction and homelessness. We're individuals that might not have bought and supports that they need the medications that they need the counseling that they need the housing that they need the resources that they need that they've now self medicated or are in such despair that they have no other choice no other resources in order.
07:58 | It's something as simple as hope they don't even have that left so that us have so many things you know you know a fridge full of food a warm bed a roof over our heads. These are privileges. And a lot of people were in this situation right. A couple of missed paychecks or you know all of those types of things. I mean never never view an individual on the street as someone that's not human or lesser right.
08:28 | I mean we could all one day find ourselves in that position and I think it's really important to remember that and remember that as a community we should be judged based on how we treat a least fortunate a large part of our community to support and to raise those people up I think is so critical. I live in my bubble and it's a very safe and secure bubble that in many ways I feel I've created over my years.
08:54 | So when I see someone on the street here are my emotions then I think I'm nervous I'm afraid of the unpredictable nature of the person I go the opposite side of the street and then I'm just glad it's over with. What should I do with feeling that way. It is ok to feel that way. It is ok to fear the unknown.
09:23 | And you describe you opened up by stating I live in a bubble. Chances are I live in a bubble as well. I think we all do in our in individuals who are middle class and above me create these bubbles and chances are in your bubble an individual who is homeless who is yelling and screaming at the corner of Dundas and Wellington chances are they don't live in your bubble. So it is ok to feel that way but it is also OK to acknowledge that that individual is a human being and something as simple as making eye contact right.
09:56 | Acknowledging their existence is a step in the right direction. That may just pick up on something you just said Dan and that is you said just to acknowledge them by making eye contact. I have made eye contact and that's like their soul looking into my soul and I have to tell you frequently their soul doesn't seem to like what they see and it escalates. So help me with that.
10:25 | When you put your guard up they put their guard up and it's this it's this comes a relationship of almost adversaries and you don't even know one another. Now you are an openly gay man does that inform your job in any way. I think being an individual I'm very sorry I want to first state.
10:48 | I'm very very blessed and I recognize how blessed I am throughout my career I've always worked with employers that have been incredibly accepting and inclusive and and I just I really really have I've had a great opportunity in my career to be open and who I am and to talk freely about the things that me my husband do on a weekend and having no whatsoever no issues I want to preface by saying that very I have in my life experience homophobia I have in my life experienced discrimination again not in the workplace but certainly outside.
11:31 | And yes you know I think I think in all careers no matter your sexuality no matter your title no matter your sector life experiences inform how you react in a work environment right. Those life lessons that learned outside of the work environment.
11:50 | Absolutely play a role in the decisions that we make in our work environment and certainly having some of the experience I had in my life just adds to the well of compassion that I can draw from when supporting individuals who may have also experienced discrimination or other type of other forms of harassment. So yes I think that I think it has.
12:19 | But I don't speak for all gay men I know. Unfortunately even in 2020 there are there are men who are women trans members of the transgender community that are forced to remain in the closet because of fear and discrimination. So still a lot of progression made but a lot a lot of progression still that needs to be made.
12:46 | Now when did you decide to as you say the closet come out of the closet. I was I was in my late teens when I when I decided that I think I was in my first year of university again living in a in a bubble or being very blessed to come out to a very supportive family various supportive friends and certainly again in my career it has never been impactful in any way whatsoever ever treated differently than any of my counterparts.
13:26 | So it's been I'm getting to one of the Elder Days I think now that I'm I can count it by decades rather than years out of the closet. So my advice to individuals that might be watching this this series and you know struggling perhaps with their own sexuality or in the context of how to navigate that in the work environment.
13:53 | My advice is always to reach out to your supports right to connect to talk to talk out loud about it. I find to be very helpful rather than having those internal conversations do it in the same way of course and in safe space. But certainly reaching out for support reaching out to others that have also gone through that experience I think is very helpful and I certainly in my time I had a mentor who was older than I was that experienced the same things I did in terms of us.
14:25 | You know that that communal process and how to do it. I met my mentor I was in a leadership position as well so certainly his guidance still to this day is very impactful on my career and the decisions that I make but reach out seek that support. I'm going to ask you why does it matter what you are or what I am.
14:50 | I know that's a really big question but what work is people doing our best and it's like why does it matter. I think I think it matters. We want to see ourselves in society in structures and organizations in government I think it is really important that certainly from a from a municipal provincial federal governments that be that the governments represent and look like the people in which they belong.
15:29 | Absolutely. I think it's important in the City of London for art particularly for social services the individuals that providing support and services we are we are civil servants we should reflect the society in which we are supporting and our society is made up of a rainbow of individuals backgrounds sexualities religious beliefs.
15:58 | The mosaic of our community and our society should be reflective of the organizations actually societies. But my my other point is why would I be homophobic. Why does your the way you are and the way you live your life. Why does that matter to me and how I live my life. As long as you're happy as long as you're kind it's.
16:25 | Why would anybody be homophobic and I know that that is a very big question to ask. But from your perspective it's really really really hard to hate close in front but it's really really easy to hate and fear what we don't know one's far away. So when you reflect and you say you know I have no issues with your sexuality it doesn't really impact me.
16:53 | I don't even think of it that automatically tells me that you have gay people in your life that you know. Yep. So that that automatically tells me that you understand that we are no different than you. We are not to fear. When I hear homophobic comments or homophobic positions I think that's just really a lack of understanding and ignorance and I think that those individuals took the opportunity to sit down with a member of the trans community or a member of the LGBT community.
17:30 | I think those positions can easily change and and you know I've certainly seen it in my own eyes where you know I think they call it a rediscovery or you know this kind of like they took one position and now they've changed it to another position. I just think particularly over the last few years maybe more than a few years. But I can remember as a kid and teenager turning on television and seeing a gay person. You would take note of it because it was different.
18:01 | Today you can't turn on the television without seeing a member of the LGBT community. I think that's so critical is to diversify and to connect with other people so they can learn and understand what their perspective and positions are. At the end of the day we're just all trying to pay our bills survive particularly during a global pandemic. So yeah I just think it's exposure for sure. I think that's really interesting what you're saying.
18:29 | This this series has two parts your career and the second part is about career resilience and you and I chatted about that and I think it's really important. I would like to talk with you about how you're resilient in terms of the kind of job you have and then I mean here Dan how you are personally resilient. Why.
18:51 | I wanted to spend some time touching on boundaries and workplace boundaries and and I think what I wanted to touch base on that is in my career again working here for nearly five years working in social services my entire career. I know before the city I I worked for the March of Dimes were both in the employment sector helping individuals with disabilities find meaningful employment.
19:20 | Before that it was with employment and serial helping individuals secure employment regional HIV AIDS connection. So I've had I've had an entire career focused on on working with vulnerable populations. And for me the people that I've met the caseworkers the social workers counselors the individuals with the most compassion the absolute most compassionate people I've ever met are individuals that were able to set the hardest most clear boundaries with their clients.
19:54 | You know when you go into an airplane and they go through the safety message and in the event of an emergency and the oxygen masks are deployed the messaging is put on your mask first and then help somebody else. And I think I reflect that to boundaries in the work environment right. They tell you that because the instinct is to help everybody else around you and worry about yourself. Last but you've just run out of options and you can't help anybody else.
20:24 | So you wanna to expand that over a 30 year career if you're constantly putting others first and not setting those boundaries. Eventually you will run out of oxygen. So I think for me setting very clear boundaries is is critical for long jeopardy of one's career but also to ensure that we remain compassionate and understanding and we let that kind of that jaded ness that that could eventually take set and hold and give me an example a specific example of where you set boundaries with someone.
21:03 | So oftentimes again working with the populations that we support here at City Plaza inventory works. We're working with individuals who are we're on a continuum of crises right. They they go from one crazy to another crazy. And when they come in to to our space oftentimes they're in an escalated stage and you know we certainly have our support structures in place but in the event that they need to speak to a manager I'm often called to the front and try to support them.
21:35 | I can control my emotions I can control what I say and how I feel but I cannot control how another person may be feeling I can be compassionate and understanding in that moment. And it is not my job to make them feel better. It is not my job to solve their problem. It is my job to ensure that they have the tools and resources necessary that I place system navigator.
22:03 | I connect them to the supports and resources that they need. I try everything I can to support them but when that moment comes to an end and they leave that problem is not my problem because I need to be able to focus on the next individual that comes in and the next individual and the next individual. So for me that boundary is I will give you this moment and I will try everything I possibly can to support your but when my job is done I use that the word that we often don't like to use which is no right.
22:40 | No. This is now. This is what we can do. This is the plan of action. But now you must go do your part and I have done mine. So I think I think we just when we say no or we set boundaries. It feels as though we are not doing a good job or we don't care or checked out. And the reality is without those boundaries we yes without boundaries you can never you can never check in or check out because you're constantly revolving around work and issues that might be at work.
23:12 | So for me it's those boundaries are important. You know I often think of we can only do what is at our own arm's length to do. And I think that's a lot of what you're describing and we can feel good about that and we can feel very proud about that. Dan I really appreciate chatting with you today and for you taking the time to talk me through some of this stuff has been absolutely fascinating.
23:40 | I have so much admiration for for for what you do for a living and what our civil servants offer us. I think we're very blessed very blessed indeed. So thank you for chatting with me and thank you Jeff for the opportunity. Very much appreciated. Thank you. To our listeners and our viewers. I hope that you enjoyed my conversation with Dan today. I think it was fascinating and that we learned a lot and until we meet again.
24:10 | Thank you very much.